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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a late 2020 T-Roc 1.5 United with MIB3. Apple CarPlay navigation is pretty much unusable due to unreliable location information shown in whatever mapping app I choose. I have tried Apple Maps, Google Maps, Here Maps and Waze. All exhibit the same problem where the gps location is off by what I estimate to be between 30m to 3km. I can't see any pattern in when the fault will occur, sometimes in the first few minutes of a drive and other times after hours. I have changed my iPhone and my network thinking the phone was a fault. I have tried plugging the phone in and using it wireless to the same effect. All available software updates are applied to the car and the phone. I don't have SatNav activated in the car to see if that works (I don't fancy a £400+ experiment). The phone reports its location accurately so I have narrowed it down to the car itself.

Dealer was useless and their fix was to uninstall software updates (which made no difference).

Before I brave the dealership again, I was wondering if this issue has been seen by anyone else and if they have found a solution?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Can’t you try your iPhone in another T-Roc at the dealership? If it’s accurate there, then they have to recognize that it’s the car’s GPS antenna that’s faulty.
 
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If your using your phone for sat nave it’s all down to your phone isn’t it? The car display is only displaying what your phone sends to it.
 

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How are you connecting your phone to the Infotainment system? I can only speak from the MIB2 system in my T-Roc but. if you are using a cable for connectivity, try another, if you are not using a cable, then maybe try connecting your iPhone by one to the system, as given what you’ve tried already, it feels like connectivity lag to me, rather than a fault in either your phone or the infotainment system - a maybe if you are connecting via Bluetooth you are encountering delays?
 

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If your using your phone for sat nave it’s all down to your phone isn’t it? The car display is only displaying what your phone sends to it.
CarPlay/AndroidAuto actually use data from the car’s GPS antenna, much to my surprise.
 

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Hi
I’m surprised as well. Is there a difference in connectivity if it’s done wirelessly or by cable. Regarding the gps?
My sat nave using my iPhone through the system is perfect I’ve got to admit. I like using waze with it having the speed camera alerts.
 

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Hi
I’m surprised as well. Is there a difference in connectivity if it’s done wirelessly or by cable. Regarding the gps?
My sat nave using my iPhone through the system is perfect I’ve got to admit. I like using waze with it having the speed camera alerts.
I wouldn’t have thought there would be a difference but wireless I guess could introduce a delay. In saying that, the phone could always be delayed in its interpretation of the data. Hard to say what’s really going on unless OP can test their phone in an identical vehicle.
 

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I’ve always used wireless and don’t see any delay or hesitation that I know off
 

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CarPlay/AndroidAuto actually use data from the car’s GPS antenna, much to my surprise.
OK, so I can use Google Maps or Waze on my phone when nowhere near my car and so these navigation apps presumably use the phone's GPS. That seems sensible as it means that the apps can be used for navigation in ANY car and not just ones which support CarPlay and Android Auto, as well as when cycling or walking.

So are you saying that if I then connect my phone to use my car's display using CarPlay or Android Auto, those navigation apps will switch from using the phone's GPS to using the car's ? Why would they choose to do that and add another complexity to the app ?
 

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OK, so I can use Google Maps or Waze on my phone when nowhere near my car and so these navigation apps presumably use the phone's GPS. That seems sensible as it means that the apps can be used for navigation in ANY car and not just ones which support CarPlay and Android Auto, as well as when cycling or walking.

So are you saying that if I then connect my phone to use my car's display using CarPlay or Android Auto, those navigation apps will switch from using the phone's GPS to using the car's ? Why would they choose to do that and add another complexity to the app ?
Probably because the car’s GPS module is on the roof which is a much better place to pick up the signal than inside the phone inside a metal box.
 

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Hi @Green Coconut - a quick internet search reveals that many people using iPhone and CarPlay combination are experiencing the same/similar issues with the GPS position when using Apple Maps, Google or Waze. That suggests that this is not a fault with your car as the reports cover many different brands and models.

Where is your phone located when you have the problem ?

From what little I've gleaned from the internet, it seems that CarPlay can get the GPS data from the phone or the car and can switch between these if the GPS signal is weak or changes. In such circumstances, the phone may actually use the mobile network to get its location and as you can imagine the accuracy of that could vary quite a lot depending on your proximity to a phone mast. Also, if/when the car loses the GPS signal it can use inertial motion systems and the car's speed to estimate the position for the onboard SatNav - I know my car does that when driving through tunnels.

I wonder if either of these is why sometimes the error you see can vary between 30m and 3km.

Unfortunately, I haven't read of there being any fix for this issue or even if Apple have acknowledged the problem.
 

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Odd that I’ve not experienced it at all if it is that widespread. First thing I do when I get in the car is plug in my iPhone, even when just nipping to the shops. Never noticed any GPS inaccuracies other than the direction I’m facing but it quickly sorts that out as I move off.

Wonder if it’s specific models of iPhone. Or where you store the phone. I put mine in the space under the climate controls for what it’s worth!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi @Green Coconut - a quick internet search reveals that many people using iPhone and CarPlay combination are experiencing the same/similar issues with the GPS position when using Apple Maps, Google or Waze. That suggests that this is not a fault with your car as the reports cover many different brands and models.

Where is your phone located when you have the problem ?

From what little I've gleaned from the internet, it seems that CarPlay can get the GPS data from the phone or the car and can switch between these if the GPS signal is weak or changes. In such circumstances, the phone may actually use the mobile network to get its location and as you can imagine the accuracy of that could vary quite a lot depending on your proximity to a phone mast. Also, if/when the car loses the GPS signal it can use inertial motion systems and the car's speed to estimate the position for the onboard SatNav - I know my car does that when driving through tunnels.

I wonder if either of these is why sometimes the error you see can vary between 30m and 3km.

Unfortunately, I haven't read of there being any fix for this issue or even if Apple have acknowledged the problem.
Agreed and thanks for looking further afield. I have seen similar issues reported on Apple forums, but nothing specific and no solution. So far I have tried an iPhone 7, an SE and a 2020SE all on different mobile networks and get the same fault, regardless where the phones are plugged (official Apple usb-c to lightning) in or located in the car. I think my next option to rule out the car's hardware would be to try an android phone and see if that exhibits the same symptoms. I think I will try that before I spend the inevitable days back and forth with the dealership trying to get this sorted.
If I find a solution I will report back in case any other T-Roc owners face the same challenges
 

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Sounds like a good plan
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So, my little experiment with Android Auto to check the gps data coming from the car is complete. Android Auto (wired) worked perfectly, never missed a beat and had perfect accuracy with no lag over three separate journeys.
As I have tried three different iPhones on CarPlay, each showing the same symptoms..
Method of elimination leaves only the CarPlay software in the MIB3 head unit that could be at fault.
I assume that this is an OTA fix or a dealer visit unless anyone else knows differently?
 

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I don't know but would guess it depends on who supplies the software.

In the case of problems with the built in Sat Nav maps, VW have always adopted the position that it is the responsibility of the 3rd party data provider and they won't even accept that they are the 'customer' in the sense that they designed the system to use a particular 3rd party for map data and they are the ones who have the commercial contract to supply map data for their cars. Despite all that, VW tell owners they have to take their problems/complaints directly to the 3rd party.

Totally ridiculous, but since the CarPlay software in the head unit is undoubtedly sourced from a 3rd party, then VW will adopt the same hands-off attitude.
 

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Your phone will use its own GPS which it does by triangulating where you are via phone masts. This can be why it shows you in a different position if it cant see more than 2 masts, rather than if you use a GPS satellite/map based system. Your display just displays the phone contents and nothing else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Your phone will use its own GPS which it does by triangulating where you are via phone masts. This can be why it shows you in a different position if it cant see more than 2 masts, rather than if you use a GPS satellite/map based system. Your display just displays the phone contents and nothing else.
Wireless Apple CarPlay uses the car's gps as per the spec from Apple. Either way at the weekend, my T-Roc recorded a new record for me with with Maps being about 10 miles off from my actual location. Pretty un-usable.
Map Screenshot Line Font Rectangle

I'll speak to the dealer about it at it's next service, but I won't hold my breath for a fix.
 

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Maybe since the car doesn't have the VW Sat Nav activated, then any updates to the Infotainment system might not include anything to fix any GPS issues, meaning CarPlay might get invalid position data from the car.

Not sure if the dealer would have any way to confirm that theory or to force updates to be installed as if the Sat Nav was activated. Normally when applying updates, the process would first check to see which options were fitted/activated.
 

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Thought - if the car's inbuilt navigation is not active then does that mean that the inbuild GPS antenna is not active, powered or even if one is fitted. Just because there is a shark fin antenna on the roof does not mean that it is ready.
If that is the case than you are only using the phone's GPS which is affected where it is placed in the vehicle. GPS needs line of sight to the sky to communicate with the maximum number of satellites, having only minimal communication with a few will throw the accuracy out. Also having less mobile phone towers around will contribute to the lack of accuracy.
Being a few miles off in a country area is not unusual if this is the case, but if you are getting more than a couple of 100 metres inaccuracy in urban areas with good mobile coverage than that is an issue.
 
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