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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Given some discussions and questions around the Rejection process and my experience of successfully rejecting my T-ROC due to the "Kangarooing" issue I thought it may be helpful to explain the process I went through. It may help some UK based owners and de-mystify the process/provide some assurance to someone and certainly make it less daunting. Well that's my intention anyway..

Rejection/ the Law:

Rejection is the process used in the motoring industry when the vehicle purchased gets returned for a refund. I'm in the UK and am not aware of how our friends in the EU and other countries are protected, but in the UK it's certainly there to protect you, the buyer.

Whether or not you wish to Reject your vehicle is clearly down to you, so this post isn't trying to make a case for doing it vs living with it/waiting for a fix/solution. For me, the Kangarooring was significant and totally ruined my enjoyment of the car. I know for others its less severe - but the point really is that if you like me, feel like this, there is a pretty straight forward way to return the car and get your money back, ie you do not have to put up with the fault if you do not want to.

You can find out all you need from a variety of other websites such as https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car and https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/34744/rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-top-tips as well as various others but in essence for the UK at least your reference point is the Consumer Rights Act of 2015.

A fault does not have to be a problem that renders the car undriveable, but it has to be significant. According to the Act, the 'goods' (i.e. - the car) must be "of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and free from any defect".

These terms can be debated in legal circles for eternity, but we are more interested in the simple practical terms. To reject your car under the Consumer Rights Act, the fault generally has to be preventing the car from doing its job properly.

Example Rejection Email:

I've posted this before, it came from other sources online and from some guidance I received within this forum. I'm sure each case may be different but this simple 5 point email worked for me.

I write regarding my vehicle Reg xxxx xxx

1. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 the 'goods' (i.e. - the car) must be "of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and free from any defect"
2. My car has a repeatable and significant defect. VW have acknowledged this publicly, as per this press article https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/owning-1/2019-01/volkswagen-acknowledges-problem-with-15-tsi-evo-engine/ and also to me in person via VW Customer Service Case Reference xxx - true in my case).
3. VW have also confirmed that they cannot fix the issue, nor can they provide a date by when they will be able to. Given that this has been ongoing for approx. 11 months or longer my confidence is low of a quick resolution.
4. I am required to provide you the opportunity to resolve the issue, yet this has been confirmed as not possible.

(5) As such I wish to confirm my desire to reject the vehicle and receive a full refund. I am aware VW have authorised Rejections for other owners with the exact same issue, thus establishing precedent.

I look forward to hearing from you etc etc .

For outright / cash purchases.

1. Reject to the VW dealer directly. Email is fine, some prefer letters but that's likely to be slower.
2. Given that VW have "acknowledged" the problem I think it makes good sense to log the call with VW Customer Services. Various methods - perhaps the quickest is to email "[email protected]". You will get allocated a reference number and someone will call you back. In my experience, and various others, whilst they may email you, they'll want to discuss in person the situation and you won't get anything useful in writing

For PCP/Finance purchases:

1. You need to deal directly with the Finance provider. If VW Finance then its likely you spoke to and signed paperwork from the relevant dealer finance contact. I'd also send to the dealer too as they'll be involved. Some have reported that for less than 30 day rejections, its the dealer, so it may be wise to send to both as I did.

Timescales for Rejection and Process:

Some say the rejection process is complex and takes ages. Neither of these were true for me. My rejection took around 2 1/2 weeks to process end to end and took one simple email to initiate.

After 30 days and Before 6 Months:


You can return the vehicle to the dealer if there is a significant "defect". The Kangaroo effect is considered and has been accepted multiple times as such a defect.

This is really the key. Some dealers may refute this, but several users of this forum have either given or offered their reference numbers for their rejections - as I'll also offer to do. From a legal perspective, which is where you'd have to go next in a "normal" Rejection this provides "precedence" and means that VW are in effect agreeing to the principle of Rejection for this issue as of now.

It's worth noting that some people have confirmed that VW have allowed rejections beyond 6 months for the Kangaroo issue - see that thread for more details.

The dealer has to be given an opportunity to resolve this problem, but currently they cannot.

Within 30 day of Purchase:

Things are a little simpler, but not really in this specific case. The dealer does not have to have time/opportunity to resolve the issue. As i've posted elsewhere I don't think this is too relevant currently (ie Feb 2019) as there is no fix anyway, at least not one that has worked or was available for mine. Clearly this may change of course.

The Refund / What you'll Receive Back:

I got a full refund from VW and think that in most cases others did too (at least those who have reported it here). I'd done a couple of thousand miles by the time it was done and had the car around 2.5 months. My personal view is that VW could deduct some monies for wear and tear but they would then provide some compensation for the hassle/stress. I believe the legal term is "loss of enjoyment" or similar if it were to get to the next stage (ie legal process).

Dealer Experience:

Some have clearly found more "resistant" dealers but I have to say mine was very professional once the email had been sent. Before that, like others I felt I was getting a bit of a runaround and being told "a fix was coming". I'm pretty sure that the process isn't ideal from a Dealer's perspective, but in reality the law is there to protect us the buyers and as such I could sleep ok with it. My advice would be to persevere and push past any "flannel" but clearly that's a personal thing.

If the Dealer Won't Accept the Fault:

I believe for the Kangaroo issue that this is less likely - so this may be more useful to those with other problems. If you get to a stalemate with a problem the dealer can't find or confirm then consider using a 3rd party Engineer. I've got direct experience of this (not with the T-ROC fortunately) but it's worth knowing that if you have to go to court, or threaten to - then the court would use such a company to provide "independent advice". I'm not sure how this is really independent given you pay them but it is the process. We actually got advice to take this action from the Financial Ombudsman (a PCP / Finance case) and it worked well. The fee was £199 for the engineer visit/report and this was 100% refunded in that case, so seems worth mentioning.

I have experience ofhttps://www.dekra-expert.co.uk/ and they were really efficient and effective. They actually met us at the dealership and checked over the car and wrote up a report that led to an almost immediate Rejection approval for a similar case. I expect there are others -but the Ombudsman suggested that as they often provide the data for County Court cases.

I'm pretty sure that if someone did do this for the Kangaroo problem and offered to share it - the dealer would prob roll over - but that's just conjecture. No such report was necessary for my T-ROC rejection. Of course legally, every car is different, so it may be more useful as a point of pressure than actually if this had to go further.

Other factors:


Clearly you may have another issue vs mine - but the process is defined and established. For PCP/Finance the process is handled centrally and thus is better understood I believe. Some dealers haven't carried out rejections and so struggle a bit.

Some dealers have offered loan cars to others whilst they "try and resolve" the problem - so this may suit you better / be something to push for. I certainly considered it, but felt that with the track record I've read about here, I really wanted a car that was mine , that was 100% functional at all times and that I enjoyed. A loaner wasn't really working for me.

Anyway, I hope this is useful for some and appreciate that many will be instead hoping for a solution / managing or better still thankful that your vehicle is not as badly affected as mine was. Whatever your case I wish you all luck and thank those who have provided support, guidance and eduction along my journey!
 

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In Spanish consumer protecion the rejection period is 14 days which is a bit mean a least it is something.
I feel that each EU country will have their own set of protection rules based on different local Consumer Acts.
 

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So much for the EU standardising consumer rights !!!
 

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Swsgm30 said:
So much for the EU standardising consumer rights !!!
NO, do not start a Brexit thread 🤫
 

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Sorry, just being sarcastic. ;)
 

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Thanks for posting this information, niche. This is very helpful. I've had to put up with this fault for just over 3 months and still no sign of a resolution. I feel the only option now is to reject the car, so it's really useful to have this level of detail from someone who has been through the process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
IanW said:
Thanks for posting this information, niche. This is very helpful. I've had to put up with this fault for just over 3 months and still no sign of a resolution. I feel the only option now is to reject the car, so it's really useful to have this level of detail from someone who has been through the process.
No problem IanW,

Sorry to hear this. I'm glad it was useful. Be prepared for the initial "kick back" but be re-assured their is a defined process and if its what you want, you'll be successful if you have the Kangaroo, especially while they still have no fix.

Still finishing off my process, as have been "faffing" about a DSG yes/no - its tricky..

Good luck and feel free to PM or ask anything you think I could help with.
 

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My 1.5 tsi is DSG. No kangarooing but there is a slight hesitation and jump pulling away when the cold start mixture is still rich. Only happens when ambient is below about 8 degC. Cure is simple, whilst the revs are raised for cold start release the park brake and let it pull away without throttle and then accelerate when in motion. Only noticeable in my case because I have to shunt to get out of my drive. If I let it idle for a minute it doesn't do it. Wierd but easy to overcome. Go DSG every time, I love it.
 

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Mikesroc said:
My 1.5 tsi is DSG. No kangarooing but there is a slight hesitation and jump pulling away when the cold start mixture is still rich. Only happens when ambient is below about 8 degC. Cure is simple, whilst the revs are raised for cold start release the park brake and let it pull away without throttle and then accelerate when in motion. Only noticeable in my case because I have to shunt to get out of my drive. If I let it idle for a minute it doesn't do it. Wierd but easy to overcome. Go DSG every time, I love it.
Fair enough. Speaking for myself though, I'm not so fussed in devising special driving techniques to make my car go forward without lurching. I've never had to wet-nurse the many other makes of vehicle I have owned :| .
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
T Roo said:
Mikesroc said:
My 1.5 tsi is DSG. No kangarooing but there is a slight hesitation and jump pulling away when the cold start mixture is still rich. Only happens when ambient is below about 8 degC. Cure is simple, whilst the revs are raised for cold start release the park brake and let it pull away without throttle and then accelerate when in motion. Only noticeable in my case because I have to shunt to get out of my drive. If I let it idle for a minute it doesn't do it. Wierd but easy to overcome. Go DSG every time, I love it.
Fair enough. Speaking for myself though, I'm not so fussed in devising special driving techniques to make my car go forward without lurching. I've never had to wet-nurse the many other makes of vehicle I have owned :| .
:lol: Same for me T Roo and I've opted to not take the chance, despite being tempted by the DSG.

My view, and it's only that, is that there is an underlying issue, masked by the DSG gearbox and who knows what damage this may be causing. If you look in the Roo thread you'll see the originating poster talking about issues on a family member's DSG which was costly.

Who knows how VW will handle this in years to come? Given the way they've handled it to date (ie still selling the Manual - inc mine) while knowing it to be faulty, that seems too high a risk to me. I appreciate others believe VW will "do the right thing'. I guess time will tell!
 

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niche said:
:lol: Same for me T Roo and I've opted to not take the chance, despite being tempted by the DSG.

My view, and it's only that, is that there is an underlying issue, masked by the DSG gearbox and who knows what damage this may be causing. If you look in the Roo thread you'll see the originating poster talking about issues on a family member's DSG which was costly.

Who knows how VW will handle this in years to come? Given the way they've handled it to date (ie still selling the Manual - inc mine) while knowing it to be faulty, that seems too high a risk to me. I appreciate others believe VW will "do the right thing'. I guess time will tell!
An issue for many will be that in rejecting the car, they are left in a sort of limbo whilst deciding which car to go for next. I would guess that most people put a lot of pre-purchase research in, then endure a potentially long wait until the car is delivered and there's the problem of having no car if you give it back; that's a lot of invested effort so rejecting is for the strong-willed.

In my case, there is much I like about the T Roc but it is as you say, faulty at point of purchase.

The sooner VW realise that there IS such a thing as bad publicity the better. For a start, it would be nice if a VW rep joined the forum to explain their plans to their customers. Come on VW, we supported you when you were down, do the same for us!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
T Roo said:
niche said:
:lol: Same for me T Roo and I've opted to not take the chance, despite being tempted by the DSG.

My view, and it's only that, is that there is an underlying issue, masked by the DSG gearbox and who knows what damage this may be causing. If you look in the Roo thread you'll see the originating poster talking about issues on a family member's DSG which was costly.

Who knows how VW will handle this in years to come? Given the way they've handled it to date (ie still selling the Manual - inc mine) while knowing it to be faulty, that seems too high a risk to me. I appreciate others believe VW will "do the right thing'. I guess time will tell!
An issue for many will be that in rejecting the car, they are left in a sort of limbo whilst deciding which car to go for next. I would guess that most people put a lot of pre-purchase research in, then endure a potentially long wait until the car is delivered and there's the problem of having no car if you give it back; that's a lot of invested effort so rejecting is for the strong-willed.

In my case, there is much I like about the T Roc but it is as you say, faulty at point of purchase.

The sooner VW realise that there IS such a thing as bad publicity the better. For a start, it would be nice if a VW rep joined the forum to explain their plans to their customers. Come on VW, we supported you when you were down, do the same for us!
Yep, I certainly agree with you re the investment and I know the feeling very well of "what do I do next?, I can't find anything as good for the money as I rather like everything else about it". I guess as I saw above its a personal choice. Yes, it was a pain doing the research I thought was done, all over again and it needed more energy and enthusiasm than I had initially. That's why I initially opted for the (maybe) safer option of the DSG. However as stories started to unfold here of faulty newer DSGs I realised I was just kidding myself and for my I'd lost faith and confidence in the brand and it was time to rip off the plaster.

I actually think I've had needed to be even more "strong-willed" to stick it out, driving a car that was frankly dangerous and adapting my driving style on what was a £20k+ investment. Given how bad mine was (I've only driven 1 other non test T-Roc and it was mild in comparison) that felt just daft and rather weak. I was bolstered by several on here who had done it before me or who had decided to avoid the whole thing based on what they'd seen and I certainly appreciated their support.

Regarding VW. I agree re publicity but they seem to have been immune so far. I doubt their organisation is one who will be a participant at this level I would suggest. They are still hoping to stay in denial and at a distance. The only public comment we've seen looks to make this to be a small issue for some, and if we look at the stats as posted elsewhere that maybe true, which is fine if you're not impacted..

I've recently suggested we pen an "Open Letter" to get some dialogue and press coverage and perhaps to pressurise VW to have to respond but I doubt even if anyone else wanted to support it, that much will come from them given the progress to date. I hope that changes of course, but as they seem to even endorse the "selling on" of a known (badly) faulty Rejected vehicle I'm not really too sure that we can make much of a difference now. Perhaps a technical solution will come sooner than any open comms and honesty from VW.. at least that seems more likely to me.

Meantime those with more minor cases are prob happier to avoid the stress and disturbance which I totally appreciate, leaving prob a relatively small number of those with more extreme examples a simple choice. At least those who manage to hear of this in the decision stage can read these details and make an informed decision - as some appear to have done - so that's also a good thing to have come from it I guess.

I wish you all good luck and hope that VW do find a solution that brings this debacle to its proper conclusion!
 

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niche said:
Yep, I certainly agree with you re the investment and I know the feeling very well of "what do I do next?, I can't find anything as good for the money as I rather like everything else about it". I guess as I saw above its a personal choice. Yes, it was a pain doing the research I thought was done, all over again and it needed more energy and enthusiasm than I had initially. That's why I initially opted for the (maybe) safer option of the DSG. However as stories started to unfold here of faulty newer DSGs I realised I was just kidding myself and for my I'd lost faith and confidence in the brand and it was time to rip off the plaster.

I actually think I've had needed to be even more "strong-willed" to stick it out, driving a car that was frankly dangerous and adapting my driving style on what was a £20k+ investment. Given how bad mine was (I've only driven 1 other non test T-Roc and it was mild in comparison) that felt just daft and rather weak. I was bolstered by several on here who had done it before me or who had decided to avoid the whole thing based on what they'd seen and I certainly appreciated their support.

Regarding VW. I agree re publicity but they seem to have been immune so far. I doubt their organisation is one who will be a participant at this level I would suggest. They are still hoping to stay in denial and at a distance. The only public comment we've seen looks to make this to be a small issue for some, and if we look at the stats as posted elsewhere that maybe true, which is fine if you're not impacted..

I've recently suggested we pen an "Open Letter" to get some dialogue and press coverage and perhaps to pressurise VW to have to respond but I doubt even if anyone else wanted to support it, that much will come from them given the progress to date. I hope that changes of course, but as they seem to even endorse the "selling on" of a known (badly) faulty Rejected vehicle I'm not really too sure that we can make much of a difference now. Perhaps a technical solution will come sooner than any open comms and honesty from VW.. at least that seems more likely to me.

Meantime those with more minor cases are prob happier to avoid the stress and disturbance which I totally appreciate, leaving prob a relatively small number of those with more extreme examples a simple choice. At least those who manage to hear of this in the decision stage can read these details and make an informed decision - as some appear to have done - so that's also a good thing to have come from it I guess.

I wish you all good luck and hope that VW do find a solution that brings this debacle to its proper conclusion!
Well said niche, as usual you've nailed all the issues.

I've been inspired to do more than just wait for VW to fix the car; I've realised reluctantly that a true fix might never come and that platitudes seem to be the VW strategy. Not good enough.

I am genuinely shocked that a rejected car has been up for sale. Developing a driving style to compensate for the Roo is quite simply unacceptable and potentially dangerous. That car should not be on a forecourt.

Goodness knows too what damage is being caused to the clutch/transmission as the T-Roc squeaks, moos, hops and judders.

The gloves are off :evil: .
 

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Does anyone know if the VW 1.5 engine is sold in the USA and if so, have there been any Roos found ? It strikes me that if any market can force VW to move it is the US.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Impala said:
Does anyone know if the VW 1.5 engine is sold in the USA and if so, have there been any Roos found ? It strikes me that if any market can force VW to move it is the US.
The only thing I found was this quote:

Asked if this "evo" engine will appear in U.S. vehicles, he says engineers have been working on a more powerful version for the U.S. but that a final decision has not yet been made.

From Jan 2019, so prob not.
Full article here:

https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/vw-working-toward-us-launch-upgraded-15l-tsi-4-cyl
 

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niche said:
Impala said:
Does anyone know if the VW 1.5 engine is sold in the USA and if so, have there been any Roos found ? It strikes me that if any market can force VW to move it is the US.
The only thing I found was this quote:

Asked if this "evo" engine will appear in U.S. vehicles, he says engineers have been working on a more powerful version for the U.S. but that a final decision has not yet been made.

From Jan 2019, so prob not.
Full article here:

https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/vw-working-toward-us-launch-upgraded-15l-tsi-4-cyl
I noticed there is an ability to post comments on that article, currently none, but maybe niche or carvonia would consider posting about the UK (& Europe ?) situation with the 1.5 EVO. Might make a few heads turn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Impala said:
niche said:
Impala said:
Does anyone know if the VW 1.5 engine is sold in the USA and if so, have there been any Roos found ? It strikes me that if any market can force VW to move it is the US.
The only thing I found was this quote:

Asked if this "evo" engine will appear in U.S. vehicles, he says engineers have been working on a more powerful version for the U.S. but that a final decision has not yet been made.

From Jan 2019, so prob not.
Full article here:

https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/vw-working-toward-us-launch-upgraded-15l-tsi-4-cyl
I noticed there is an ability to post comments on that article, currently none, but maybe niche or carvonia would consider posting about the UK (& Europe ?) situation with the 1.5 EVO. Might make a few heads turn.
Well spotted Impala.
WIll do, not sure of the readership of said article but worth a go. We can now link to other vehicle forums too - having had a scout around and seen the post re Skoda.

thanks
 

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Thanks Niche for this, Following your post I have now rejected my Nov 18 T-roc 1.5 evo SEL with free kangaroo pack. and now waiting for options ,(refund etc) My local dealer (Hadwins Lindale) have been absolutely brilliant with this and been fully supportive throughout so big shout out really. This is in fact my wife car which we only really went for because of grandchild arriving and rugrat vehicle wouldn't go in the A1 so we are now going down the used 1.4 TFSI Q2 route, Adding to this our Audi dealer (same Group , Hadwins) informed me that as from today all orders for cars with the 1.5 engine were not to be accepted so it looks like VAG have finally seen enough rejects to finally sort it out. We'll wait and see!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
merlyn said:
Thanks Niche for this, Following your post I have now rejected my Nov 18 T-roc 1.5 evo SEL with free kangaroo pack. and now waiting for options ,(refund etc) My local dealer (Hadwins Lindale) have been absolutely brilliant with this and been fully supportive throughout so big shout out really. This is in fact my wife car which we only really went for because of grandchild arriving and rugrat vehicle wouldn't go in the A1 so we are now going down the used 1.4 TFSI Q2 route, Adding to this our Audi dealer (same Group , Hadwins) informed me that as from today all orders for cars with the 1.5 engine were not to be accepted so it looks like VAG have finally seen enough rejects to finally sort it out. We'll wait and see!
No problem. I'm pleased it was useful. Interesting and really good to hear your dealer was good. A used Q2 sounds sensible, nice cars - and not going to have the Roo issue unlike the new 1.5 ones..

Interesting news from the Audi dealer - we've heard a few similar stories - so here's hoping a solution is forthcoming soon...

Good luck with the Q2 and the grandchild!
 
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