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Security

15K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  twist 
#1 ·
Hi All,

Has anyone else added additional security to their R? I have my high-tech steering lock but have made the decision to have a tracker fitted whilst my dash cams are being popped in.

Apparently, this should help the insurance....
 
#3 ·
I agree with 182_blue that trackers are a waste of time. I've had them fitted before (mainly due to it being an insurance requirement), however these days, if you report your car stolen, it all depends on whether the local police force have any cars which are able to detect and trace trackers, and even then if they do, whether they are available. It's a shame as its goes against all the blurb put out by the tracker companies, but its a simple fact that police forces don't ahve many (if any in some counties) cars equipped to track stolen vehicles.

The best you can hope for is to make the car difficult to steal. So, never reverse into a parking slot, drive In (as it takes time for a thief to reverse as opposed to driving straight out). The best device IMO for preventing a theft is a Disklok, excellent piece of kit, does the job admirably, but a damned nuisance to carry about. No good taking it off and putting in the boot, as any tea leaf will watch you get it out the boot, wait for you to return and then pinch the car off you when you come back and are putting the Disklok back in the boot (so you need to carry it within the car which is a pain).

Originally I did purchase and attempt to fit one of those strong bars (Stop Lock) that lock across the steering wheel, however, the T-ROC steering wheel and sitting position prevents any decent lock being fitted as it catches on the seat or won't go across the wheel.

I now am just aware of WHERE I park the car and take all reasonable precautions, as, as yet, haven't found anything visual that one can use within the T-ROC that is man enough for the job. Best you can do is spend your money on a decent immobiliser IMO.
 
#4 ·
Hawkeye said:
I agree with 182_blue that trackers are a waste of time. I've had them fitted before (mainly due to it being an insurance requirement), however these days, if you report your car stolen, it all depends on whether the local police force have any cars which are able to detect and trace trackers, and even then if they do, whether they are available. It's a shame as its goes against all the blurb put out by the tracker companies, but its a simple fact that police forces don't ahve many (if any in some counties) cars equipped to track stolen vehicles.

The best you can hope for is to make the car difficult to steal. So, never reverse into a parking slot, drive In (as it takes time for a thief to reverse as opposed to driving straight out). The best device IMO for preventing a theft is a Disklok, excellent piece of kit, does the job admirably, but a damned nuisance to carry about. No good taking it off and putting in the boot, as any tea leaf will watch you get it out the boot, wait for you to return and then pinch the car off you when you come back and are putting the Disklok back in the boot (so you need to carry it within the car which is a pain).

Originally I did purchase and attempt to fit one of those strong bars (Stop Lock) that lock across the steering wheel, however, the T-ROC steering wheel and sitting position prevents any decent lock being fitted as it catches on the seat or won't go across the wheel.

I now am just aware of WHERE I park the car and take all reasonable precautions, as, as yet, haven't found anything visual that one can use within the T-ROC that is man enough for the job. Best you can do is spend your money on a decent immobiliser IMO.
From the manual it appears to INFER that those with Keyless Entry do have a immobilizer as there is some mention of a key code being read.
The flashy little red light is for the central locking so in reality is there a standard immobilizer fitted or any form of deterrent in some cases or not? :shock:
 
#6 ·
vernerbongo2 said:
The car doors/boot dead lock, access only by Smashing a window and climbing in.
Engine immobiliser stops someone driving off.

Surely the only way of stealing it is to get the keys?
Together with steering lock.

If keyless this is released electronically, as is the immobiliser reading the key. If keyed, there's a transducer in the key to disengage the immobiliser. Forcing/breaking the key lock won't help start it without the key transducer.

Most thefts of cars like this are cloning the kessy key. I did an experiment on my T-Cross 2020, left the keys on a stool beside the door and tested I could lock and unlock. Came back 20 minutes later and car would no longer unlock until I moved the keys. So certainly my kessy has the keys going to sleep if motionless. I've seen mention of 15 minutes idle, I left them bit more than 20 minutes.

P.S. The car is out of sight, down a very private drive, in a very rural hidden away village, so it wasn't a risky test to perform.
 
#7 ·
Tricky2 said:
vernerbongo2 said:
The car doors/boot dead lock, access only by Smashing a window and climbing in.
Engine immobiliser stops someone driving off.

Surely the only way of stealing it is to get the keys?
Together with steering lock.

If keyless this is released electronically, as is the immobiliser reading the key. If keyed, there's a transducer in the key to disengage the immobiliser. Forcing/breaking the key lock won't help start it without the key transducer.

Most thefts of cars like this are cloning the kessy key. I did an experiment on my T-Cross 2020, left the keys on a stool beside the door and tested I could lock and unlock. Came back 20 minutes later and car would no longer unlock until I moved the keys. So certainly my kessy has the keys going to sleep if motionless. I've seen mention of 15 minutes idle, I left them bit more than 20 minutes.

P.S. The car is out of sight, down a very private drive, in a very rural hidden away village, so it wasn't a risky test to perform.
They only announced certain VAG models with the new "sleeping keys" and that only included Passat as far as I remember. Unless they've started shipping sleeping keys with other cars and just not said anything? How many times did you test? Is it possible it was just fluke?
 
#8 ·
twist said:
Tricky2 said:
vernerbongo2 said:
The car doors/boot dead lock, access only by Smashing a window and climbing in.
Engine immobiliser stops someone driving off.

Surely the only way of stealing it is to get the keys?
Together with steering lock.

If keyless this is released electronically, as is the immobiliser reading the key. If keyed, there's a transducer in the key to disengage the immobiliser. Forcing/breaking the key lock won't help start it without the key transducer.

Most thefts of cars like this are cloning the kessy key. I did an experiment on my T-Cross 2020, left the keys on a stool beside the door and tested I could lock and unlock. Came back 20 minutes later and car would no longer unlock until I moved the keys. So certainly my kessy has the keys going to sleep if motionless. I've seen mention of 15 minutes idle, I left them bit more than 20 minutes.

P.S. The car is out of sight, down a very private drive, in a very rural hidden away village, so it wasn't a risky test to perform.
They only announced certain VAG models with the new "sleeping keys" and that only included Passat as far as I remember. Unless they've started shipping sleeping keys with other cars and just not said anything? How many times did you test? Is it possible it was just fluke?
Happy to retest, but def Not a fluke. On placing the keys down the car would lock and unlock every time. On returning tried several attempts at lock unlock, no response from the car. Picked up the keys, the car unlocked immediately on next try.

I'm guessing they are just quietly introducing them. The cars a my20 model and has other features others with my19 haven't got.

I did video, but this forum doesn't recognise mp4's to add into threads.

Also check out this thread.. https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1831 specifically The modified key software...
 
#9 ·
Tricky2 said:
Happy to retest, but def Not a fluke. On placing the keys down the car would lock and unlock every time. On returning tried several attempts at lock unlock, no response from the car. Picked up the keys, the car unlocked immediately on next try.

I'm guessing they are just quietly introducing them. The cars a my20 model and has other features others with my19 haven't got.

I did video, but this forum doesn't recognise mp4's to add into threads.

Also check out this thread.. https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1831 specifically The modified key software...
You're absolutely right: that text from the MY21 changes suggests that MY20 car keys do have a motion sensor that deactivates after 15 minutes. Very interesting. Assuming it works, I could stop using my faraday bag now. Although the bag does act as a second layer of security (software failure PLUS harder to find in the house during a break-in).

I'm going to test this myself too (my T-Roc is a MY20 as well).
 
#11 ·
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
 
#12 ·
TonyJ said:
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
The T-Roc R is quite a chunk of change more expensive than the Golf R so I'd think it would actually be more desirable. The RR Evoque in entry models is cheaper than the Golf R and they're still huge targets. I wouldn't discount anything. I'm even concerned about my R-line :lol: I have a NEST camera watching my drive 24/7 and have seen the occasional suspicious character have a "longer than just admiring the paintwork" look at it. Maybe they know to look for indents on the door handles to identify keyless models.

In fact I was notified of one such character just 6 hours before my neighbor was targeted with a keyless relay attack and had his RR stolen.
 
#14 ·
I don't think it will be much of a target in all honesty, T-ROC's are not (yet?) regarded as cool "must have" vehicles, in the way that the Evoque's and larger SUV's have a high black market re-sale value, or the Fiesta / Golf Teenager market. I did worry about my Audi RSQ3 when I first got it, but it's never (yet) been the target of an attempted theft in 4 years of ownership; more I was worried about my previous Audi RS3 (which together with the S3) was a "target" vehicle.

Regarding extra security though, you can never be too careful, on that I will agree. First off, I'm always careful where I park, and alwats park into rather than reverse into a spot - was told that by the police years ago after an attempted theft on a previous car. What I would suggest though would be a good steering wheel lock - my personal choice is a DiskLok, for sure it's a right PITA carrying it around, but it achieves a few things
- it's very visible!
- it's very hard for criminals to remove - takes some time
- it also stops your steering wheel being stolen ( a lot of that of late around me for the air bags)
- it's cheaper than a lot of unseen anti-theft devices (at around £110)

As regards fitting trackers - these days I do wonder about the value of such things. Yes I've had to have them fitted in the past (insurance company requirement) but have regarded them as a waste of time. Why? Because many times the police do not have the equipment installed or resources available to react to the report of a stolen vehicle. The equipment and availability of same varies across each and every police force in the country. Also most trackers only work in the UK, so if you travel abroad they don't work. Me - I like something big and visible on mine to act as a deterrent so they look elsewhere for the easy pickings (as if they are going to pinch your car, they will whether its keyless or not).

So personally I'd invest in a Disklok , or something which is Thatcham approved ( https://www.thatcham.org/ ) and just generally make your car visually "difficult" to would be thieves
 
#15 ·
I was at university in Sheffield a few years ago and a couple of cars a night went missing from the car park.

Several of my mates either removed a wheel or fitted a wheel clamp both are a PITA but none ever went missing!
 
#16 ·
TonyJ said:
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
We got a T-Roc R last month and I was surprised that our insurance company (Churchill) didn't require a Tracker. We're still considering one but meanwhile we're using a Disklok.
And have ensured our CCTV has a good view of it.
 
#17 ·
TonyJ said:
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
Have a look at this: https://autowatch.co.uk/veh-sec/ghost-2-menu#mid_100

I reckon you can ditch everything else (steering wheel locks, wheel clamps etc) in favour of the "Ghost" ;)
 
#19 ·
Gmcnaugh said:
TonyJ said:
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
Have a look at this: https://autowatch.co.uk/veh-sec/ghost-2-menu#mid_100

I reckon you can ditch everything else (steering wheel locks, wheel clamps etc) in favour of the "Ghost" ;)
Gets good reviews and not a lot of money - the only comments I found when re-searching the reviews were:

- If you turn the engine off you have to take the key out, put it back in after a few seconds then start and enter the code. As such you cannot do any quick getaways with this. Might be a pain if you stall the car

- There is a valet function that allows the car to be started and driven without the code until you reset it or someone goes over 30 odd mph

Other than that it seems to be very effective.

The only thing I would say is that given there is nothing visible about Ghost, I'd install it as the secondary (but most effective) measure; to me using something like a Disklok (or similar) that is visible would help stop chancers doing damage breaking into the car in the first place.
 
#20 ·
Hawkeye said:
- If you turn the engine off you have to take the key out, put it back in after a few seconds then start and enter the code. As such you cannot do any quick getaways with this. Might be a pain if you stall the car

- There is a valet function that allows the car to be started and driven without the code until you reset it or someone goes over 30 odd mph

Other than that it seems to be very effective.

The only thing I would say is that given there is nothing visible about Ghost, I'd install it as the secondary (but most effective) measure; to me using something like a Disklok (or similar) that is visible would help stop chancers doing damage breaking into the car in the first place.
The first caveat *could* be solved by installing their phone app. The unlock code is transmitted via Bluetooth but then this makes the system susceptible to a relay attack just like a Kessy key. And a Farraday bag for your phone is hardly an option :lol: I mean the thief would have to know you had this Ghost system in the first place and it's probably quite rare so maybe not such a common security issue. That said, Bluetooth does some clever things to deter this kind of thing (hopping channels quickly and pseudo-unpredictably, for example). You could also mitigate it by transmitting GPS data along with unlock codes but it's not clear if the Ghost app does this.

Totally agree with having secondary, visible protection though. A CCTV camera is also a fantastic deterrent.
 
#21 ·
Hawkeye said:
Gmcnaugh said:
TonyJ said:
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
Have a look at this: https://autowatch.co.uk/veh-sec/ghost-2-menu#mid_100

I reckon you can ditch everything else (steering wheel locks, wheel clamps etc) in favour of the "Ghost" ;)
Gets good reviews and not a lot of money - the only comments I found when re-searching the reviews were:

- If you turn the engine off you have to take the key out, put it back in after a few seconds then start and enter the code. As such you cannot do any quick getaways with this. Might be a pain if you stall the car

- There is a valet function that allows the car to be started and driven without the code until you reset it or someone goes over 30 odd mph

Other than that it seems to be very effective.

The only thing I would say is that given there is nothing visible about Ghost, I'd install it as the secondary (but most effective) measure; to me using something like a Disklok (or similar) that is visible would help stop chancers doing damage breaking into the car in the first place.
You do have to reset it if you switch the engine off. Can't comment on removing the key then reinserting.

Not sure what the negative aspect of the service mode is though. Should the service department drive your car at >30 Mph? I thought they just drove it into the workshop then back out again. &#x1f937-2642;

Personally, I think the pros outweigh the cons.
 
#22 ·
YorkshireBlue said:
TonyJ said:
I'd like to revisit this topic ...

I have a T-Roc R due for delivery next month, and I'm looking for ways to improve its security, both when parked at home (mainly in a locked garage) but also when I am out and about.
I have not contacted my insurers yet (Aviva), but has anyone any experience of insurance companies insisting on a Tracker being fitted? If so, what type?

Having had a look a the trackers on the market, many seem to be designed to combat keyless theft. I have not gone for the keyless option, so I don't want to waste money on a product which gives me protection I don't need!

Also, not sure how much or a "target" the T-Roc R actually is. I know the Golf R is a favourite, but perhaps the T-Roc is less so - there aren't many on the roads anyway !

Any thoughts or recommendations? VW themselves seem to recommend Meta-Track S5 VTS - it's in their accessories brochure. Not sure how good this is.

Thanks
We got a T-Roc R last month and I was surprised that our insurance company (Churchill) didn't require a Tracker. We're still considering one but meanwhile we're using a Disklok.
And have ensured our CCTV has a good view of it.
CCTV does nothing to protect the car, it merely records the theft for your future viewing
 
#23 ·
miniman said:
YorkshireBlue said:
And have ensured our CCTV has a good view of it.
CCTV does nothing to protect the car, it merely records the theft for your future viewing
Nonsense: most thieves won't go near a car if there's CCTV.
 
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