Automatic/DSG gearboxes

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twist
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by twist » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:05 pm

Impala wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:40 pm
mzracam74 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:41 am
If I remember correctly paddles came as part of sport pack, although as ever its hard to confirm what is included until you collect car. Tried a few times and to be honest wouldn't have really missed if I didn't have
Paddles are standard on the R-Line and R models and optional (£195 or £320 with heated steering wheel) on SE, Design and SEL.

Strangely, a heated steering wheel is not even available as an option for the R-Line or R.

Before I ordered my car I was considering an SEL and VW customer services advised me that paddle shifters were not included in the Sport pack and the two options (Sport pack and paddles) could not be ordered together. Crazy, as paddles are a feature 'sporty' drivers might want, but that's typical of VW these days.
Same with red brake calipers: sporty upgrade that is not possible on the sportiest of trim levels. I would have really liked them.
UK 1.5 DSG R-line in Indium Grey
Keyless, park assist, rear view cam, driver assist pack plus, lumbar support
Ordered: 11/12/19 / Collected 20/03/20

FamilyMan
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:39 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by FamilyMan » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Impala wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
My DSG selector is usually in one of three positions;

P - I'm parked with the engine off 8-)
R - when I want to reverse :idea:
D - when I want to go forward :idea:

But seriously, I stick it in D and leave it there except when parked or reversing. I don't bother moving to P or N at traffic lights. Also, VW say not to use N for coasting (eg downhill) as that can result in the box overheating.

I use the paddles to engage a lower gear going down long/steep hills (as you say, to save the brakes) and I sometimes do the same to slow down when approaching a roundabout on a fast dual carriageway or on an exit slip lane. The dash indicator will show M when you use the paddles, but the DSG will return to D and resume auto shifting after a couple of minutes if the car's systems believe you have resumed a steady speed without acceleration/braking or no longer going downhill. If you want to return to D sooner, you cancel Manual mode by pulling and holding the left (minus) paddle for a second or so and the dash indicator reverts to D.

While in M, if the engine speed drops too low for the gear you have selected (eg applying the brakes), the DSG will automatically drop the gear further by itself. Likewise, if you accelerate and reach too high an engine speed, the DSG automatically shifts up. The only thing you have to remember is that if you come to a stop while in M (from using the paddles), the DSG will select first gear and you can find the engine screaming when you move off if you forget to manually shift up or to cancel Manual mode .

I don't use the tiptronic, and I tend to flick the DSG selector in D/S to use Sport mode for overtaking (if I need extra oomph) rather than using the paddles. BTW, when in Sport with the throttle hard down and revs around 3500+ then flick the selector to revert to D, you will produce a noticable fart even with the 1.5 engine.

The DSG is superb in conjunction with Adaptive Cruise Control, engine Stop/Start and Auto-Hold brake.
Our T-Roc has done over 2,500 miles since the end of September but Essex is very flat, we simply don’t have hills of any note that warrant the use of the paddle shift so it’s only driven in D. I have often wondered how it would work, grateful for the advice.
1.5 TSI EVO R Line DSG Deep Black Pearl
Driver assistance pack, rear view camera, electric tailgate, keyless entry, lumbar support

Ordered 21/06/2019
Stage 3 30/07/2019 Build week 36 MY20
Stage 5A 03/09/2019
Stage 7 18/09/2019
Handover 27/09/2019 pm

FamilyMan
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:39 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by FamilyMan » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:23 pm

twist wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:05 pm
Impala wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:40 pm
mzracam74 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:41 am
If I remember correctly paddles came as part of sport pack, although as ever its hard to confirm what is included until you collect car. Tried a few times and to be honest wouldn't have really missed if I didn't have
Paddles are standard on the R-Line and R models and optional (£195 or £320 with heated steering wheel) on SE, Design and SEL.

Strangely, a heated steering wheel is not even available as an option for the R-Line or R.

Before I ordered my car I was considering an SEL and VW customer services advised me that paddle shifters were not included in the Sport pack and the two options (Sport pack and paddles) could not be ordered together. Crazy, as paddles are a feature 'sporty' drivers might want, but that's typical of VW these days.
Same with red brake calipers: sporty upgrade that is not possible on the sportiest of trim levels. I would have really liked them.
The red brake callipers would look cool on our black R Line.
1.5 TSI EVO R Line DSG Deep Black Pearl
Driver assistance pack, rear view camera, electric tailgate, keyless entry, lumbar support

Ordered 21/06/2019
Stage 3 30/07/2019 Build week 36 MY20
Stage 5A 03/09/2019
Stage 7 18/09/2019
Handover 27/09/2019 pm

Deleted User 1717

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by Deleted User 1717 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:52 am

Having had paddle shifts on the steering wheel for the last few cars I have probaly used them twice and only for seconds so it's not something I would miss if I didn't have them.

Hawkeye
Posts: 953
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by Hawkeye » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:24 am

FamilyMan wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Our T-Roc has done over 2,500 miles since the end of September but Essex is very flat, we simply don’t have hills of any note that warrant the use of the paddle shift so it’s only driven in D. I have often wondered how it would work, grateful for the advice.
@FamilyMan, like you I live in Essex and mate you don't need hills to use the paddles - try a bit of sporty driving around country lanes!

Actually I mean this in all seriousness - the one problem (?) with DSG boxes to my way of thinking, especially if left in Drive all the time is that you never really 'use' the engine, as they are designed to give the most comfortable ride at the best economy in the highest gear possible for the circumstances.

But one has to remember here that ECU's on modern cars "learn" - meaning they adapt to your style of driving. So what may you ask? I've found over the years that using the revs every few weeks actually makes the car perform a lot better in terms of response (I'm not saying it goes faster, but the engine acts a lot better if you give it some revs once in a while. Manual cars don't suffer this so much as typically drivers will hold onto the revs a little longer normally than what a DSG box will, so you need to give you DSG box and engine a bit of a 'fitness workout' - by this I don't mean redlining it through the gears, but popping your DSG box in Manual once in a while and changing up at higher revs than normal will make a noticeable difference over time to your T-ROC.

I think it a shame that drivers with DSG boxes don't explore them a little more, but use them as straight automatic boxes. They can do much more than an auto box, which whilst some may say "so what" - and I can appreciate that - there are situations where it is useful to know what they are capable of.

Getting back to the flat roads of Essex @FamilyMan, always happy to take you on a spirited drive through the flat Essex country roads :D
R-Line 2.0TSi DSG 4MOTION
Silver White with Black Roof
Panoramic Sunroof
'Beats' Sound system
Electric Tailgate
Rear View Camera
Park Assist
Driver Assistance Pack Plus

Ordered 20-10-18
Collected 19-03-19

User avatar
T Roo
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:20 am

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by T Roo » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:18 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:24 am
Getting back to the flat roads of Essex @FamilyMan, always happy to take you on a spirited drive through the flat Essex country roads :D
Don’t do it FamilyMan, Hawkeye is one of those bike riding nutters :twisted:

FamilyMan
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:39 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by FamilyMan » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:04 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:24 am
FamilyMan wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Our T-Roc has done over 2,500 miles since the end of September but Essex is very flat, we simply don’t have hills of any note that warrant the use of the paddle shift so it’s only driven in D. I have often wondered how it would work, grateful for the advice.
@FamilyMan, like you I live in Essex and mate you don't need hills to use the paddles - try a bit of sporty driving around country lanes!

Actually I mean this in all seriousness - the one problem (?) with DSG boxes to my way of thinking, especially if left in Drive all the time is that you never really 'use' the engine, as they are designed to give the most comfortable ride at the best economy in the highest gear possible for the circumstances.

But one has to remember here that ECU's on modern cars "learn" - meaning they adapt to your style of driving. So what may you ask? I've found over the years that using the revs every few weeks actually makes the car perform a lot better in terms of response (I'm not saying it goes faster, but the engine acts a lot better if you give it some revs once in a while. Manual cars don't suffer this so much as typically drivers will hold onto the revs a little longer normally than what a DSG box will, so you need to give you DSG box and engine a bit of a 'fitness workout' - by this I don't mean redlining it through the gears, but popping your DSG box in Manual once in a while and changing up at higher revs than normal will make a noticeable difference over time to your T-ROC.

I think it a shame that drivers with DSG boxes don't explore them a little more, but use them as straight automatic boxes. They can do much more than an auto box, which whilst some may say "so what" - and I can appreciate that - there are situations where it is useful to know what they are capable of.

Getting back to the flat roads of Essex @FamilyMan, always happy to take you on a spirited drive through the flat Essex country roads :D
Thanks for the offer and the advice Hawkeye. My driving is mostly A12/M25 then M4, M40 or M23 and A130/A120. I’ll wait till the spring, give the country roads a try and visit my sister at Pebmarsh. At this time of year the road is only accessible with a 4x4.
1.5 TSI EVO R Line DSG Deep Black Pearl
Driver assistance pack, rear view camera, electric tailgate, keyless entry, lumbar support

Ordered 21/06/2019
Stage 3 30/07/2019 Build week 36 MY20
Stage 5A 03/09/2019
Stage 7 18/09/2019
Handover 27/09/2019 pm

mzracam74
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:51 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by mzracam74 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:52 pm

As you state Impala - typical of VW. When I ordered I got driver assistance pack as option but trying to work out possible combinations from configurator was a pain, still overall happy with my TRoc and after 8 months got used to its characteristics
1.5 SEL DSG 4 motion, Indium Grey. Driver assistance pack, sports pack and winter pack, adamantium wheels. Ordered 09Feb19. Collected 14jun19

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brid
Posts: 374
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Location: Alicante Spain

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by brid » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:37 am

I have two DSG gearboxes in different makes of car and both have the same drawback.
Generally speaking they are well mannered and operate fine. Given that they are both classed as electrically operated manual gearboxes with some form of "control" in the form of paddles or whatever, they do have drawbacks which seem odd. They will not operate as a manual box in certain conditions.
For anyone who has tried to "force" a higher gear at a road speed lower than what the unit wants ( eg,when on decent or in slow traffic) it will not do it until the road speed is achieved. The VW seems to be 30kph before 3rd and 40 kph for 4th.
For anyone who has tried to move off in second from standing (in low grip situations) that higher gear cannot be manually selected.
For anyone using the ACC in traffic from standing start the unit insists on 1st gear starts and which can result in a quick lunge forward.
I presume this is the "drawback" if you can call it that, of not having the torque converter and the "slip gives some greater smoothness.
These are not gripes, just observations. Do others find the same problems?
Sport 2.0 TDI 150 CV DSG7 Gris Urano, Panoramic Roof.
Collected 12-06 2019

Impala
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: Automatic/DSG gearboxes

Post by Impala » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:06 pm

I'm aware of what you are saying Brid, but as yet I haven't tried to engage a lower or higher gear outside of the range that the DSG is programmed to allow. Also, when using ACC and the car comes to a complete stop, I prefer to start the car myself rather then allowing the ACC to do it, so no quick lunge.

When I reverse out of my driveway on to a short, shared spur, I have to turn 90 degrees and go up a short incline. If we have ice or snow in winter, this can sometimes cause problems with wheel slip, especially in 1st gear. My previous Golf DSG handled this perfectly, as it would engage 2nd gear very early, but we have had no ice or snow this winter so I'm not sure how the T-Roc will handle this.

One other point, when wheel slip occurs like this, doesn't the traction control apply the brake on the slipping wheel. I think this uses the same sensors as ABS but works in reverse.
1.5 TSI DSG R-Line MY19 Indium Grey, rear view camera, park assist.
Ordered 22/06/18
Built w/c 25/03/19 :(
With dealer 13/05/19 :P
Collected 20/05/19 :D

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