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1.5 EVO - 1st gear kangaroo

1M views 3K replies 222 participants last post by  VWMan 
#1 ·
As a foreword I'm going to say I love my TROC, it's one of the best driving cars i've ever had. However is it just me or do other 1.5 EVO drivers find the TROC can kangaroo a bit in 1st gear if you don't time the clutch and accelerator perfectly?

Never had this problem with any other car and I drive a lot of different cars. Any suggestions would be welcomed.
 
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#727 ·
#729 ·
#730 ·
As I have not experienced the 'kangeroo syndrome' I have not participated in this thread. However, this morning I read an article about the benefits of using higher octain super unleaded petrol (97 to 99 RON). I have never used standard 95 RON unleaded since I fill up with 'super' at COSTCO being 10 to 12p/litre cheaper than most other brands and even cheaper than some standard unleaded. :p

I am therefore wondering if this has a bearing on the problem for those who do use 95 RON so do any of you also have kangerooing with super unleaded 97/99 RON petrol :?:

NB
Whilst doing a 'word/phrase' search for this thread I came up with one result, a post by Dolphinfriendly1012 https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=266&p=2812&hilit=Shell+super#p2812 I don't think there has been many more posts on this subject being related to fuel quality but with 73 pages it's too onerous to review every post.
 
#731 ·
JAMCT said:
As I have not experienced the 'kangeroo syndrome' I have not participated in this thread. However, this morning I read an article about the benefits of using higher octain super unleaded petrol (97 to 99 RON). I have never used standard 95 RON unleaded since I fill up with 'super' at COSTCO being 10 to 12p/litre cheaper than most other brands and even cheaper than some standard unleaded. :p

I am therefore wondering if this has a bearing on the problem for those who do use 95 RON so do any of you also have kangerooing with super unleaded 97/99 RON petrol :?:

NB
Whilst doing a 'word/phrase' search for this thread I came up with one result, a post by Dolphinfriendly1012 https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=266&p=2812&hilit=Shell+super#p2812 I don't think there has been many more posts on this subject being related to fuel quality but with 73 pages it's too onerous to review every post.
Have you considered running your tank down low and filling up with standard unleaded to see if you notice any difference ?
 
#732 ·
Impala said:
JAMCT said:
As I have not experienced the 'kangeroo syndrome' I have not participated in this thread. However, this morning I read an article about the benefits of using higher octain super unleaded petrol (97 to 99 RON). I have never used standard 95 RON unleaded since I fill up with 'super' at COSTCO being 10 to 12p/litre cheaper than most other brands and even cheaper than some standard unleaded. :p

I am therefore wondering if this has a bearing on the problem for those who do use 95 RON so do any of you also have kangerooing with super unleaded 97/99 RON petrol :?:

NB
Whilst doing a 'word/phrase' search for this thread I came up with one result, a post by Dolphinfriendly1012 https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=266&p=2812&hilit=Shell+super#p2812 I don't think there has been many more posts on this subject being related to fuel quality but with 73 pages it's too onerous to review every post.
Have you considered running your tank down low and filling up with standard unleaded to see if you notice any difference ?
Not yet, I'll see what feedback I receive to my post.

However I only do 3,000 to 4,000 mpa so with Costco's discounted premium petrol prices I haven't needed to save cash on standard unleaded but do, supposedly, get improved engine performance!.... hopefully ;)
 
#733 ·
JAMCT said:
As I have not experienced the 'kangeroo syndrome' I have not participated in this thread. However, this morning I read an article about the benefits of using higher octain super unleaded petrol (97 to 99 RON). I have never used standard 95 RON unleaded since I fill up with 'super' at COSTCO being 10 to 12p/litre cheaper than most other brands and even cheaper than some standard unleaded. :p

I am therefore wondering if this has a bearing on the problem for those who do use 95 RON so do any of you also have kangerooing with super unleaded 97/99 RON petrol :?:

NB
Whilst doing a 'word/phrase' search for this thread I came up with one result, a post by Dolphinfriendly1012 https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=266&p=2812&hilit=Shell+super#p2812 I don't think there has been many more posts on this subject being related to fuel quality but with 73 pages it's too onerous to review every post.
The octane level in fuel makes absolutely no difference in most (99%) modern engines. The reason we have differing grades is older engines or high performance engines would see increased knocking or pre-ignition with low octane fuel types. Fuel companies like to advertise higher grade fuel as a 'more performance more efficiency'. This is arguably again 99% bullshit, you'll read a lot about 'more efficient burn etc' which again is 99% bullshit. Higher octane fuel is for high performance high compression engines to stop pre-ignition. The rest is marketing wank from fuel companies to sell more expensive fuel to you.

VW's 1.5 TSI engine is a mass produced consumer grade engine designed for standard 95 octane fuel. Engine knocking and other real issues associated with lower octane fuel use will not cause any issues, and therefore the use of higher octane fuels will not result in any performance, efficiency or engine longevity gain.

This kangaroo issues is a clutch/engine torque delivery problem through and though. Use of fuel won't change anything unless you put fuel so junk in your tank, your engine ceases to function efficiently.
 
#734 ·
hikeimperial said:
JAMCT said:
As I have not experienced the 'kangeroo syndrome' I have not participated in this thread. However, this morning I read an article about the benefits of using higher octain super unleaded petrol (97 to 99 RON). I have never used standard 95 RON unleaded since I fill up with 'super' at COSTCO being 10 to 12p/litre cheaper than most other brands and even cheaper than some standard unleaded. :p

I am therefore wondering if this has a bearing on the problem for those who do use 95 RON so do any of you also have kangerooing with super unleaded 97/99 RON petrol :?:

NB
Whilst doing a 'word/phrase' search for this thread I came up with one result, a post by Dolphinfriendly1012 https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=266&p=2812&hilit=Shell+super#p2812 I don't think there has been many more posts on this subject being related to fuel quality but with 73 pages it's too onerous to review every post.
The octane level in fuel makes absolutely no difference in most (99%) modern engines. The reason we have differing grades is older engines or high performance engines would see increased knocking or pre-ignition with low octane fuel types. Fuel companies like to advertise higher grade fuel as a 'more performance more efficiency'. This is arguably again 99% bullshit, you'll read a lot about 'more efficient burn etc' which again is 99% bullshit. Higher octane fuel is for high performance high compression engines to stop pre-ignition. The rest is marketing wank from fuel companies to sell more expensive fuel to you.

VW's 1.5 TSI engine is a mass produced consumer grade engine designed for standard 95 octane fuel. Engine knocking and other real issues associated with lower octane fuel use will not cause any issues, and therefore the use of higher octane fuels will not result in any performance, efficiency or engine longevity gain.

This kangaroo issues is a clutch/engine torque delivery problem through and though. Use of fuel won't change anything unless you put fuel so junk in your tank, your engine ceases to function efficiently.
I tend to agree, although I don't have a significant problem I tried a tankful of super unleaded, made no difference whatsoever.
 
#735 ·
Ednabucket said:
hikeimperial said:
JAMCT said:
As I have not experienced the 'kangeroo syndrome' I have not participated in this thread. However, this morning I read an article about the benefits of using higher octain super unleaded petrol (97 to 99 RON). I have never used standard 95 RON unleaded since I fill up with 'super' at COSTCO being 10 to 12p/litre cheaper than most other brands and even cheaper than some standard unleaded. :p

I am therefore wondering if this has a bearing on the problem for those who do use 95 RON so do any of you also have kangerooing with super unleaded 97/99 RON petrol :?:

NB
Whilst doing a 'word/phrase' search for this thread I came up with one result, a post by Dolphinfriendly1012 https://www.trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=266&p=2812&hilit=Shell+super#p2812 I don't think there has been many more posts on this subject being related to fuel quality but with 73 pages it's too onerous to review every post.
The octane level in fuel makes absolutely no difference in most (99%) modern engines. The reason we have differing grades is older engines or high performance engines would see increased knocking or pre-ignition with low octane fuel types. Fuel companies like to advertise higher grade fuel as a 'more performance more efficiency'. This is arguably again 99% bullshit, you'll read a lot about 'more efficient burn etc' which again is 99% bullshit. Higher octane fuel is for high performance high compression engines to stop pre-ignition. The rest is marketing wank from fuel companies to sell more expensive fuel to you.

VW's 1.5 TSI engine is a mass produced consumer grade engine designed for standard 95 octane fuel. Engine knocking and other real issues associated with lower octane fuel use will not cause any issues, and therefore the use of higher octane fuels will not result in any performance, efficiency or engine longevity gain.

This kangaroo issues is a clutch/engine torque delivery problem through and though. Use of fuel won't change anything unless you put fuel so junk in your tank, your engine ceases to function efficiently.
I tend to agree, although I don't have a significant problem I tried a tankful of super unleaded, made no difference whatsoever.
.......but your car is still kangerooing???

I am interested in knowing if anyone's car is kangerooking with higher octain petrol so bearing in mind the interesting input from #hikeimperial, I should save myself a few £s and use Costco's very inexpensive 95 RON :)

BUT doesn't higher octain give higher mpg :?:
 
#736 ·
The handbook says:

"Refuel only with petrol that has the specified Research Octane Number (RON) or higher. If, in an emergency you have to use petrol with an octance lower than the recommended number, drive at medium engine speeds and avoid high engine loading. Avoid high engine speeds and heavy engine loads. Refuel with petrol with the correct octane number as soon as possible".

The handbook goes on to say that a factory fitted sticker is located inside the tank flap and it indicates the required fuel type for the vehicle. Using fuel that does not comply with these standards may reduce performance and cause damage to the engine and fuel system.

I have always used the more expensive, super unleaded fuel (95 RON upwards) and my car has had The Roo since day one. I don't intend using a lower grade fuel not least because this might let VW off a hook. In any case, I agree with hikeimperial that the Roo is not a fuel grade issue.
 
#737 ·
I didn't know there was 'lower grade fuel' (less than 95 RON) available in the UK!

PS
20:05hr See link:-

https://www.jct600.co.uk/blog/fuel-types-explained/

And interesting debate / comments here:-

https://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?24031-Petrol-quality-supermarket-or-not

Apologies if anyone thinks I am going too far OFF TOPIC but I still think that as I have never experienced kangarooing having always used 'super unleaded' 97/98 RON fuel since car purchased, then there may well be some truth in my theory!. :roll:

Try 97/98RON and see.
 
#738 ·
Newtroconthebloc said:
SIMMO said:
Dolphinfriendly1012 said:
The cynic in me would think that the technical issue is possibly engine related. Coincidence or not?

Motor1 UK: New VW Golf reveal delayed until late 2019.
https://uk.motor1.com/news/313478/new-vw-golf-delayed/amp/
Cynic no never, more like spot on ! VW clearly being kept under wraps .
Sorry SIMMO, don't get it, why are VW being kept under wraps ?
Should have been VW keeping under wraps whoops.

Its likely even if a VW fix appears in the summer, or to new production cars earlier, will not be highlighted, just slipped into main stream cars. Interesting the new Golf is on hold due to technical difficulties could it be the 1.5 tsi roo. Relative picks up a new 1.5tsi Q2 in ten days that will be interesting. Dealer has confirmed prior to delivery that they are now aware of the problem.
 
#739 ·
I am one of the first four posts in this topic (albeit under a different name)
What I see is that the topic has gone from a need to establish what is happening with our cars to the need for people who don't even own a T-ROC to spout off what we should think or do.
If you don't own a T-ROC please go else where in this forum and put your point.
I have been criticised in the past for saying that everything has been highlighted in the past but the latest fuel octain issue was brought up eons ago. My VW technician suggested this to me 10 months ago.
I have lived with this problem for over a year and it has resulted in my wife refusing to drive the car.
When I suggested that my cars symptoms had subdued significantly after 12 months I was more or less called a liar.
I was only trying to give others hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
This topic in my opinion should be paused till someone or some body comes up with the divinitive answer to our problem.
.As I suggested a while back this topic went from April to December with the use of 15 pages, look where we are now.
 
#740 ·
JAMCT said:
Apologies if anyone thinks I am going too far OFF TOPIC but I still think that as I have never experienced kangarooing having always used 'super unleaded' 97/98 RON fuel since car purchased, then there may well be some truth in my theory!. :roll:
Fair enough JAMCT. My reply should have been more succinct: I've used super unleaded since purchase and my car has kangarooed since purchase.

Carvonia said:
I am one of the first four posts in this topic (albeit under a different name)
What I see is that the topic has gone from a need to establish what is happening with our cars to the need for people who don't even own a T-ROC to spout off what we should think or do.
If you don't own a T-ROC please go else where in this forum and put your point.
I have been criticised in the past for saying that everything has been highlighted in the past but the latest fuel octain issue was brought up eons ago. My VW technician suggested this to me 10 months ago.
I have lived with this problem for over a year and it has resulted in my wife refusing to drive the car.
When I suggested that my cars symptoms had subdued significantly after 12 months I was more or less called a liar.
I was only trying to give others hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
This topic in my opinion should be paused till someone or some body comes up with the divinitive answer to our problem.
.As I suggested a while back this topic went from April to December with the use of 15 pages, look where we are now.
I'm in the same boat as you more or less.

As for pausing the topic: the responsibility for finding a definitive answer to our problem lies with VW. Past experience shows that only when a topic is aired in public do they (a) admit it and (b) do something about it.
 
#741 ·
Carvonia said:
I am one of the first four posts in this topic (albeit under a different name)
What I see is that the topic has gone from a need to establish what is happening with our cars to the need for people who don't even own a T-ROC to spout off what we should think or do.
If you don't own a T-ROC please go else where in this forum and put your point.
I have been criticised in the past for saying that everything has been highlighted in the past but the latest fuel octain issue was brought up eons ago. My VW technician suggested this to me 10 months ago.
I have lived with this problem for over a year and it has resulted in my wife refusing to drive the car.
When I suggested that my cars symptoms had subdued significantly after 12 months I was more or less called a liar.
I was only trying to give others hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
This topic in my opinion should be paused till someone or some body comes up with the divinitive answer to our problem.
.As I suggested a while back this topic went from April to December with the use of 15 pages, look where we are now.
Just because you dont own one of the Kangaroos doesn't mean to say you are to be banned from a Forum information is important to those wishing to make up your mind so Forum Police not interested, car rejected new information awaited. If You Pause on all information you may have along wait, with warranty over good luck my advise Reject it if you can.
 
#742 ·
T Roo said:
JAMCT said:
Apologies if anyone thinks I am going too far OFF TOPIC but I still think that as I have never experienced kangarooing having always used 'super unleaded' 97/98 RON fuel since car purchased, then there may well be some truth in my theory!. :roll:
Fair enough JAMCT. My reply should have been more succinct: I've used super unleaded since purchase and my car has kangarooed since purchase.

Carvonia said:
I am one of the first four posts in this topic (albeit under a different name)
What I see is that the topic has gone from a need to establish what is happening with our cars to the need for people who don't even own a T-ROC to spout off what we should think or do.
If you don't own a T-ROC please go else where in this forum and put your point.
I have been criticised in the past for saying that everything has been highlighted in the past but the latest fuel octain issue was brought up eons ago. My VW technician suggested this to me 10 months ago.
I have lived with this problem for over a year and it has resulted in my wife refusing to drive the car.
When I suggested that my cars symptoms had subdued significantly after 12 months I was more or less called a liar.
I was only trying to give others hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
This topic in my opinion should be paused till someone or some body comes up with the divinitive answer to our problem.
.As I suggested a while back this topic went from April to December with the use of 15 pages, look where we are now.
I'm in the same boat as you more or less.

As for pausing the topic: the responsibility for finding a definitive answer to our problem lies with VW. Past experience shows that only when a topic is aired in public do they (a) admit it and (b) do something about it.
Spot on T Roo VW can they be trusted think not omissions is a good one! the best thing VW hope for if they cant fix it is all goes quiet, sorry that's there plan, convinced if as some have said its a issue between engine torque and Clutch, that's not a software fix as they have tried that. Still watching and waiting after a rejection, but in a couple months will have to look for different car one thinks.
 
#743 ·
The point I was trying to make was that someone with 175 posts on this issue on the back of a 30 minute road test is only clouding the problem.
I would have thought that someone with so much to say about VW would have given it best and moved on to another make.
Obviousely the more that is said the more it will be looked into. This has already been achieved as VW now acknowledge the problem so there is no need to constantly go over the same ground.
 
#744 ·
Sorry Judge and leading expert of Forums and points of view, you assume to much how do you know it was a 30 minute test drive does that argument suit your cause, dont cloud the issue this is T Roc forum, My investigation centered around official information from VW HQ dealers and other VW Brand Names if you dont like the varied information and the truth, dont read it and leave it to others who are interested . Personally when I looked into the Forum original, I read every single post and that saved me from a possible terrible mistake. So dont tell what I can and can not say on the Forum. I had not intended to post another Forum comment until the Q2 had been delivered to my relative but hey Ho if it winds you up its worth it.

Am I the slightested bit bothered by your comments no if it saves one person frpm buying a Kangaroo.
 
#745 ·
Carvonia said:
The point I was trying to make was that someone with 175 posts on this issue on the back of a 30 minute road test is only clouding the problem.
I would have thought that someone with so much to say about VW would have given it best and moved on to another make.
Obviousely the more that is said the more it will be looked into. This has already been achieved as VW now acknowledge the problem so there is no need to constantly go over the same ground.
Should have added, Thank goodness the Roo is saved VW " acknowledge the problem " so all is well , wrong its the fix or lack of it that's the problem every one knows there's a problem. They cant defend the indefeasible. Good Luck.
 
#746 ·
SIMMO said:
Carvonia said:
The point I was trying to make was that someone with 175 posts on this issue on the back of a 30 minute road test is only clouding the problem.
I would have thought that someone with so much to say about VW would have given it best and moved on to another make.
Obviousely the more that is said the more it will be looked into. This has already been achieved as VW now acknowledge the problem so there is no need to constantly go over the same ground.
Should have added, Thank goodness the Roo is saved VW " acknowledge the problem " so all is well , wrong its the fix or lack of it that's the problem every one knows there's a problem. They cant defend the indefeasible. Good Luck.
Credit where credit's due SIMMO, you've got total domination of this thread .. and you don't even have a 'Roc' :evil: :evil:
I'm losing the will to live :roll: :roll:
 
#747 ·
SIMMO said:
Carvonia said:
The point I was trying to make was that someone with 175 posts on this issue on the back of a 30 minute road test is only clouding the problem.
I would have thought that someone with so much to say about VW would have given it best and moved on to another make.
Obviousely the more that is said the more it will be looked into. This has already been achieved as VW now acknowledge the problem so there is no need to constantly go over the same ground.
Should have added, Thank goodness the Roo is saved VW " acknowledge the problem " so all is well , wrong its the fix or lack of it that's the problem every one knows there's a problem. They cant defend the indefeasible. Good Luck.
Hi SIMMO,
Do you ever give your posts a quick once over before you submit them?
I really struggle to make sense of what you are trying to say sometimes.
Who exactly are the "indefeasible" and what are VW trying to defend them from?
 
#748 ·
Carvonia said:
The point I was trying to make was that someone with 175 posts on this issue on the back of a 30 minute road test is only clouding the problem.
I would have thought that someone with so much to say about VW would have given it best and moved on to another make.
Obviousely the more that is said the more it will be looked into. This has already been achieved as VW now acknowledge the problem so there is no need to constantly go over the same ground.
But the kangaroo is now reaching its first birthday. Perhaps VW will buy all sufferers a cake? Better still, could they spare us their magnanimity in 'acknowledging the problem' and get on with fixing it? We know they are gifted fixers after all.
 
#749 ·
Well sadly I didn't see this forum before ordering and recently receiving my kangarooing T-Roc, Gutted!! We are expecting a response from our dealer tomorrow but the likelihood of them guaranteeing a resolution is slim. If however I do find anything out I'll let everyone know on here ASAP. I'm expecting to reject at this rate and have to say I'm gutted as I genuinely love the car and spec however it's just not acceptable the near misses etc we are experiencing.

Couple of quick questions if peeps don't mind,

1) would the diesel as an alternative be a good choice? The 1.6 seems underpowered to me.
2) is the 2 ltr diesel non 4 wheel drive available yet?
3) is there as much activity on this topic in other forums, Audi, Skoda etc etc? There must be thousands of 1.5's out there with this issue, how can it only seem to affect some
4) would a petition whereby people can gather in numbers to force VW into some sort of urgent action be a good idea?
5) have people experienced a slight degree of vibration when pressing the clutch fully in, as they come to a halt? Might be just me but it does not feel smooth, I do accept I come from driving a diesel where this type of very slight feedback is likely masked, however clicking as I reverse off the drive has occurred a few times
 
#750 ·
Hi TheRock, sorry to hear you have experienced the kangaroo effect.

I'll leave others to answer your Qs about the problem, but I can confirm that the 2.0 TDI with 6 speed manual box or 7 speed DSG is available on SE trim and above. 4Motion is available as an additional variant with the manual box on the SEL and R-Line trims
 
#751 ·
TheRock said:
Well sadly I didn't see this forum before ordering and recently receiving my kangarooing T-Roc, Gutted!! We are expecting a response from our dealer tomorrow but the likelihood of them guaranteeing a resolution is slim. If however I do find anything out I'll let everyone know on here ASAP. I'm expecting to reject at this rate and have to say I'm gutted as I genuinely love the car and spec however it's just not acceptable the near misses etc we are experiencing.

Couple of quick questions if peeps don't mind,

1) would the diesel as an alternative be a good choice? The 1.6 seems underpowered to me.
2) is the 2 ltr diesel non 4 wheel drive available yet?
3) is there as much activity on this topic in other forums, Audi, Skoda etc etc? There must be thousands of 1.5's out there with this issue, how can it only seem to affect some
4) would a petition whereby people can gather in numbers to force VW into some sort of urgent action be a good idea?
5) have people experienced a slight degree of vibration when pressing the clutch fully in, as they come to a halt? Might be just me but it does not feel smooth, I do accept I come from driving a diesel where this type of very slight feedback is likely masked, however clicking as I reverse off the drive has occurred a few times
Sorry to hear of your Kangarooing, sadly I know that feeling well - having also not seen this forum until after some weeks into ownership.

I'll let others reply on the technicalities etc - I was warned off Diesels as I wanted a long term car and the Residual values shown to me as a trend put me off - but everyone's case is unique, so that may not be relevant for you. I'm also aware that the dealers showing me this would have had their own motivations too..

One thing I would say is that I tried to get some impetus behind data collection - thinking it was the best route to get VW to act and that just failed. A couple of forum members have started spreadsheets, and Parkers got in contact too but for whatever reason the take up was really really poor/low. Prob as we lacked someone willing to take it on based in the UK (which was where the majority of the comments come from, not saying its just a UK issue).

Maybe a well organised petition would help - but it seems the UK press at least are just not interested. Tweets and mails to all the major magazines came to almost nothing for several of us that tried. The only one who took any more interest than Parkers was HonestJohn - so I think we can credit via another forum member for pushing VW hard enough for the "acknowledgement" but we've never got beyond that sadly.

I wish you well and do hope that VW come up trumps - but personally I wasn't prepared to wait as I could feel the car was taking a hammering from the adopted driving style I had to take and I felt I'd struggle to prove that over longer term ownership.

If you do go for the Rejection route - I posted my experiences in a separate thread and am happy to answer any specifics if it helps / comes to that, hopefully it won't as its another couple of months now nearer a potential solution.

Good luck.
 
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