Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

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Impala
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by Impala » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:21 pm

If it had always operated the same way then I might agree with you Hawkeye, but why do they break things that used to work and then just shrug and say too bad, you should pay attention to the road (as I always do).

To think this worked perfectly well on a 5 year old Golf, using basically the same sat nav system and maps. It's not what I'd call progress.

My main reason for feeling let down is that more and more of our roads have variable speed limits, from 20 mph zones now popping up, urban motorways where the limits go up and down like a yo-yo and the road signs are diabolical. Some are hidden by trees & bushes, and the small repeater signs that are supposed to be fitted on lamp posts seldom exist. If it is a road you are used to then it's no problem, but on roads that I've never driven on I often find myself wondering and asking my wife what the limit is as neither of us have any recollection of seeing the signs.

VW may be no worse than other manufacturers, but many people are saying stand-alone third party sat navs are much better. I have no experience of using any other sat nav except on my Golf and now my T-Roc, but I expect technology to be better today than it was 5 years ago. I'll lodge a complaint with VW, not with any expectation of a fix, but at least they will know there is another dissatisfied customer reporting the same problem as many others.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by brid » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:19 am

Impala wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:21 pm
If it had always operated the same way then I might agree with you Hawkeye, but why do they break things that used to work and then just shrug and say too bad, you should pay attention to the road (as I always do).

To think this worked perfectly well on a 5 year old Golf, using basically the same sat nav system and maps. It's not what I'd call progress.

My main reason for feeling let down is that more and more of our roads have variable speed limits, from 20 mph zones now popping up, urban motorways where the limits go up and down like a yo-yo and the road signs are diabolical. Some are hidden by trees & bushes, and the small repeater signs that are supposed to be fitted on lamp posts seldom exist. If it is a road you are used to then it's no problem, but on roads that I've never driven on I often find myself wondering and asking my wife what the limit is as neither of us have any recollection of seeing the signs.

VW may be no worse than other manufacturers, but many people are saying stand-alone third party sat navs are much better. I have no experience of using any other sat nav except on my Golf and now my T-Roc, but I expect technology to be better today than it was 5 years ago. I'll lodge a complaint with VW, not with any expectation of a fix, but at least they will know there is another dissatisfied customer reporting the same problem as many others.
I am with you here Impala. I travel in Europe a lot going from Spain into France, Italy and sometimes Belgium/ southern Germany even the UK.
A good working satnav is very important to me and speed information is not a secondary consideration. You are at times in stressful situations of congestion on motorways where it is difficult to see signage easily due to the nose to tail high sided trucks.
(I think Italy is worst for this, 2 lane motorways with endless wagons to and from Romania, Poland etc:) so it is reasonable to expect some form of confirmation of the limits in different countries and unfamiliar environments where it is so easy to get things wrong.
Nothing is 100% but it should tell us something even in the form of a maybe. That's why I got involved with HERE. saw a nav mistake, saved it on the dash cam and later altered the HERE mapping base for an amendment in due course.
I did hear a rumor that Google was after Nokia for some time but failed. Don't know if that would have been a good thing or not.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by Impala » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:04 pm

Thanks Brid ... glad I'm not alone.

Now that you have got your car, can you keep an eye on your Sat Nav display and let us know if the speed limits ever vanish on European roads in case this is just a UK issue. It doesn't need to be giving route guidance, so it just needs to be switched on.

Interestingly, I found that the speed limits disappear at exactly the same positions when running in Demo Mode so it is possible to test it without even going on a journey. You can select any start and destination locations, but annoyingly the demo runs at the same rate as if you were actually driving. So if you try a route the requires 1 hour then the demo will also take an hour, but thankfully you can end guidance at any time.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by brid » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:27 pm

Impala wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:04 pm
Thanks Brid ... glad I'm not alone.

Now that you have got your car, can you keep an eye on your Sat Nav display and let us know if the speed limits ever vanish on European roads in case this is just a UK issue. It doesn't need to be giving route guidance, so it just needs to be switched on.

Interestingly, I found that the speed limits disappear at exactly the same positions when running in Demo Mode so it is possible to test it without even going on a journey. You can select any start and destination locations, but annoyingly the demo runs at the same rate as if you were actually driving. So if you try a route the requires 1 hour then the demo will also take an hour, but thankfully you can end guidance at any time.
This car has sign recognition as a norm and to be honest I have only been in it to collect it, fuel it, change the language to English and get a page on the navigation that tells me it's a navigation help system which I cannot get rid of, will attempt again tomorrow, but no luck so far!!!.
If I can disable the recog then maybe it will revert to the sat system signage as to be honest I don't know what its doing as yet but I feel it will be a long haul.
The dealer ordered the handbook from VW in English and it arrived in Spanish albeit a 2019 version with a lot of supplementary leaflets telling of the system/spec changes. To be honest it doesn't seem much different to 2018 version that we have already.
If I ever get to grips with it I will see what it does. One thing, when on the forecourt after refueling, on restart it did say, no speed sign available so maybe it must have been looking. :shock:
On the road home there was a short delay when the speed limit changed that is why I thought it may have been from the disc. I will try taking it out later for comparison.
I find the owner manual long on waffle and limited on information with depth. Bit blasé.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by Impala » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:51 pm

Hi Brid,

I agree about the manuals. They miss a lot of detail that you only become aware of sitting in the car and seeing for yourself. Then when you have a question and try looking in the manual it doesn't mention what you are looking for. Also, there are too many features and functions that are dependent on equipment levels and country but it doesn't give any details.

As for the Traffic Sign Recognition (uses same forward facing camera as Lane Assist), I've read on the Tiguan forum that it works in conjunction with the Sat Nav map data, but there is a lot of confusion/doubt as to which takes priority.

The Sat Nav operation is described in the Infotainment manual rather than the car manual, but it is as bad if not worse for clarity, accuracy and detail. The connectivity sections are even worse. Probably wouldn't matter to me whether the manuals are in Spanish or English, the result is still double Dutch.

Good luck !
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by Impala » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:51 pm

Update on the OP & missing speed limit dsiplay.
Impala wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:44 pm
The original SD card supplied in the car (delivered 20 May 2019) has the following version info;
5NA919866 1030 ECE1 2018/19

The new version info is;
5NA919866H 1115 ECE1 2019/20
The following Discover Media Sat Nav software version history & comments is from the Tiguan forum ... https://www.tiguanforums.co.uk/viewtopi ... =11&t=4315 ;
Europe V1 0235 3G0-919-866 ECE 2014/15
Europe V2 0335 3G0-919-866-E ECE 2015
Europe V3 0430 3G0-919-866-H ECE 2015/16
Europe West V4 0521 3G0-919-866-M ECE1 2016
Europe West V5 0635 3G0-919-866-S ECE1 2016/17 << roads through villages seem to default to 60 unless a a sign is seen
Europe West V6 0730 3G0-919-866-AQ ECE1 2017
Europe West V7 0820 3G0-919-866-BC ECE1 2017/18 << Last good one? Will see shortly
Europe West V8 0915 3G0-919-866-BJ ECE1 2018 << Sends you off dual carriageways for no good reason, roads through villages seem to default to 60 unless a a sign is seen
Europe West V9 1030 5NA.919.866 ECE1 2018/19 << Thinks dual carriageways are 60 mph
Some of the comments above will be familiar to many, and although my own experience of speed limits disappearing on motorways is not explicitly mentioned, I believe it is all part & parcel of the same defect in the VW system and/or map data.

I have now tried the following versions on my T-Roc;

Europe 1 V7 - 6P0919866R.0820.ECE1 2017/18 << Motorway speed limits disappear, exits dual carriageway to roundabout then rejoins
Europe 1 V9 - 5NA919866.1030.ECE1 2018/19 (as delivered) << Motorway speed limits disappear
Europe 1 V10 - 5NA919866H.1115.ECE1 2019/20 << Motorway speed limits disappear
Europe All V10 - 5NA919866R.1115.ECE AS 19/20 << Motorway speed limits disappear

As already posted, the latest update (V10) does not fix the motorway speed limit display.

I tested Europe 1 V9 & V10 on the road, but tested V7 and Europe All V10 in Demo mode with the car sitting on my driveway. In all cases, the motorway speed limits disappear on the same stretches of motorway that I've driven. The exit & rejoining issue with V7 was a defect I also had on my Golf through 5 years of updates without a fix, but it seems to be fixed now in V9 & V10 on the T-Roc (to be confirmed).

Again using Demo mode, I've determined that any roads shown white on the Sat Nav display will not have a speed limit displayed. This applies to streets in built up areas as soon as you leave a main road, but there may be other instances on unclassified roads in rural areas as I haven't explored those yet.

I've examined the dates of the files contained in V9 and V10 and found that V9 was created in Jan 2018, while V10 was created in July 2018. Why these are labelled as 2018/19 and 2019/20 is beyond me, but demonstrates how slow VW are to make new map data available. The fact that my car was delivered with an SD card labelled V9 I think is due to these being fitted by the dealer rather than in the factory, so are probably just using existing stock, but they really should update the software before delivery.

Updates are supposed to come out twice per year, so there may be a new one coming soon.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by brid » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:46 pm

Impala wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:04 pm

Now that you have got your car, can you keep an eye on your Sat Nav display and let us know if the speed limits ever vanish on European roads in case this is just a UK issue. It doesn't need to be giving route guidance, so it just needs to be switched on.

Interestingly, I found that the speed limits disappear at exactly the same positions when running in Demo Mode so it is possible to test it without even going on a journey. You can select any start and destination locations, but annoyingly the demo runs at the same rate as if you were actually driving. So if you try a route the requires 1 hour then the demo will also take an hour, but thankfully you can end guidance at any time.
My findings are very confusing and disturbing. Think yourself lucky you don't have this feature in the UK.
Had the need to go to Benidorm this afternoon so decided to do a test of the sign recog and the savnav combination accuracy of the information as displayed and as known and compared to my Merc which I know displays speed incorrectly in 4 places.
Spain has recently reduced the speed limits down from 100kph to 90 kph on various random sections of roadway.
To set the norm it must be known that on all non motorway roads when approaching a roundabout from a 90kph section signage will display 70kph then 40kph slowdown speeds with the final speed of 40kph in all cases.
When approaching a built up area speed drops are usually first to 60kph then 50kph followed by addition drops to 40 or 30kph in central high traffic areas.
So for me this journey can vary between 30kph to 100kph - motorway running was not used as it far too expensive for short hops.
My start was from an urbanisation where 30kph are displayed and also road markings of 30.
Satnav display started at 50kph then saw a sign 30. then forgot the sign and reverted to 50 all within 200 metres. Then saw the road paint and back to 30 and so on in 40's also. It really did want to state 50 most of the time till we cleared area the town after 5 kms. It really did not know what to do and was besides itself with indecision - poor lamb!!
This flitting between actual and maybe speeds continued until joining the main highway.
Here again it "saw signs" displayed them then soon forgot and did not know what to do as it jumped the between the physical sign and the the stored speed data, also and throwing in a 30 during a 60 limits for good measure as it decided that a side road was a crossroad. What!!!
It was good at picking up the signs then chose to forget as it appeared to want to default to the disc, the info in some cases going from 80kph to 40kph in a few 100m's and back to yet another speed until a new physical sign was discovered and displayed.
It did a good job at finding the info as long as you were in the nearside lane but, if, god forbid, you decided to stray to another lane it forgot about the last data and reverted to the disc again. Trouble with this is, the data, as Impala has stressed, is completely wayward and quite a bit out of date.
Conclusion. If one could turn off the speed data contained on the disc it would be far better as I feel the system mix is detrimental.
It needs to be one or the other BUT - the disc speed data is so inaccurate it ain't a good advert for anything.
A very saddening experience knowing that the concept in it's present state - with respect to speed data display - is really not fit for purpose. 80kms of frustration and just coming to the conclusion you cannot trust it.
I would have thought if it sees it it would show it until the next new event but no. Sad.
ACC works great though and Lane assist. :D So not all bad.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by Impala » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:08 pm

Thanks for all that detail Brid. What a nightmare !

I had confidence in the speed limits displayed on my Golf Sat Nav as, a) they were always displayed, and b) accurate in all but one location I ever encountered.

I discovered today that the disappearing display is not just on motorways. I was driving on the A78 between Largs and Greenock (a trunk road no less) and the limits were displayed and changed correctly until I reached the village of Skelmorlie, where it should have changed from 60 to 30 mph but just vanished completely. However, Skelmorlie and Wemyss Bay villages are just a single built up area with only a local council 'border' separating the two, so it is a continuous 30 mph zone but as soon as I crossed that invisible 'border' the 30 mph limit was displayed. The same thing happened (in reverse) on the return journey.

I know some of the blame for this might lie with the map data provider, but surely it is up to Volkswagen to ensure they are providing customers with a high quality product. The farce experienced by Brid, myself and no doubt countless others is unacceptable and not fit for purpose.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by Impala » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:26 pm

Hi Brid.

I don't have the dynamic Traffic Sign Recognition system (camera based) as it is not even offered as an option on the T-Roc in the UK, but I would assume that it might be included in the 'Assist' systems and if you look in the Car Settings there might be an option to switch it off. I know you can completely turn off Lane Assist.

Just wondering if you could do that and see if the Sat Nav speed limit display is more stable, but probably still not accurate if the actual road limits have recently changed. It would at least confirm that one system is fighting the other.
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Re: Sat Nav Speed Limit Display Disappears

Post by brid » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 pm

Impala wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:26 pm
Hi Brid.

I don't have the dynamic Traffic Sign Recognition system (camera based) as it is not even offered as an option on the T-Roc in the UK, but I would assume that it might be included in the 'Assist' systems and if you look in the Car Settings there might be an option to switch it off. I know you can completely turn off Lane Assist.

Just wondering if you could do that and see if the Sat Nav speed limit display is more stable, but probably still not accurate if the actual road limits have recently changed. It would at least confirm that one system is fighting the other.
I have a handy roll of gaffer tape which l am going to cover the camera lol. That will teach it then we see what happens 😁
Looked in the menus as well but cannot find a way. ACC, lane ass, and some others are individual select but not sign recog.
Cannot see a way to get rid of that car compass in the centre either .... Sure it wasn't there when l bought it. Hmmmph😱
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